tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post5503953617666639282..comments2017-08-16T14:56:43.784-07:00Comments on HOSPITALLERS: "The Ecumenical Vatican Council II: A Much Needed Discussion" Msgr. Brunero GherardiniKnight of Maltahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01722860565200350792noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-37403509072166390342012-10-14T09:37:57.432-07:002012-10-14T09:37:57.432-07:00Time Magazine.
Thank you for all of your commen...Time Magazine. <br /><br />Thank you for all of your comments, both good and bad!<br /><br />Below is something all of us Catholics can agree will be edifying to our spirits. Hope you all have a blessed Sunday!<br /><br />http://www.restlessheartfilm.com/?src=cwrKnight of Maltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01722860565200350792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-70188465494720836482012-07-21T12:09:40.443-07:002012-07-21T12:09:40.443-07:00You mentioned on Rorate Caeli that you had seen so...You mentioned on <a href="http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/04/controlling-mic-at-vatican-ii.html?showComment=1334856281157#c2642018539831907156" rel="nofollow">Rorate Caeli</a> that you had seen some pictures of the prelates wining and dining at the second Vatican council. Do you recall where you saw those pictures?Michaelhttp://promultis.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-31883769959136321272012-05-22T10:30:52.222-07:002012-05-22T10:30:52.222-07:00@John: "[H]e doesn't appear to me to unde...@<a href="#c5459677843172714210" rel="nofollow">John</a>: "<i>[H]e doesn't appear to me to understand the Council's intent.</i>"<br /><br />He writes that the Council's intent here: "[A] <b>reconciliation</b> of the Church and the world was being spoken of." [46, boldface in original]<br /><br />"<i>I do not know if Vatican II taught dogmatically about anything</i>"<br /><br />Only when it re-iterated previously defined dogma:<br />"[N]one of its doctrines, unless ascribable to previous conciliar definitions, are infallible or unchangeable, nor are they even binding".<br /><br />Vatican II was not entirely infallible because it "<i>ha evitato di pronunciare in modo straordinario dogmi dotati della nota di infallibilità</i> [avoided pronouncing in an extraordinary way (new) dogmas endowed with the note of infallibility]" (<a href="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/audiences/1966/documents/hf_p-vi_aud_19660112_it.html" rel="nofollow">Pope Paul VI audience, 12 January 1966</a>) and "In view of conciliar practice and the pastoral purpose of the present Council, this sacred Synod defines matters of faith or morals as binding on the Church only when the Synod itself openly declares so," which it never did (Council's General Secretary, 16 November 1964).<br /><br />"<i>true, long-term growth cannot happen without some degree of risk, sometimes pretty stiff risk.</i>"<br /><br />Tradition—the deposit of faith passed on uncorrupted through the Church from the time of the Apostles—must remain unchanged. Although our understanding of it might deepen, that doesn't mean Tradition itself grows or changes.<br /><br />"<i>If it isn't binding on every person, why bother with it at all?</i>"<br /><br />Good question! Especially since the Council was convened with very little direction. (E.g., the Preparatory Commission's schemas were all scrapped, etc.)<br /><br />Also, as Msgr. Gherardini wrote, it hasn't been established councils can't fail.Geremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-75150585322874168452012-05-22T09:33:00.131-07:002012-05-22T09:33:00.131-07:00I read the introduction of this book in Italian, a...I read the introduction of this book in Italian, and it certainly has a more polemical spirit than Romano Amerio's <i>Iota Unum</i>.<br /><br />Thanks for the quotesGeremiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11812810552682098086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-86645952788029105082010-08-09T18:30:16.447-07:002010-08-09T18:30:16.447-07:00Interestingly, the friar who translated it into En...Interestingly, the friar who translated it into English claims to have confirmation that the Pope is reading (or has read) it.Knight of Maltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01722860565200350792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-79626198392157476562010-08-09T17:30:39.342-07:002010-08-09T17:30:39.342-07:00I am partly through the book. It is certainly not ...I am partly through the book. It is certainly not the easiest text to read but well worth the time and effort.<br /> <br />The last section of the book is a personal plea to Pope Benedict to take immediate action on the failings of VII that are called on by the author. Sadly, though, if reports are true His Holiness has refused to even touch the book let alone read it.Jimmynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-54596778431727142102010-08-09T16:11:01.181-07:002010-08-09T16:11:01.181-07:00Well, I guess I'll be the one dissenting vote ...Well, I guess I'll be the one dissenting vote thus far.<br /><br />I'm not a philosopher, theologian, or whatever, and I'd love to read the book to see what all Msgr says.<br /><br />BUT, from the excerpts here, I think Msgr may fall into the trap that hinders many traditionalists:<br />He understands what he was taught about the faith and he can quote saints with great skill.<br />However, he doesn't appear to me to understand the Council's intent.<br /><br />I do not know if Vatican II taught dogmatically about anything, but I don't think that's relevant. I've always felt that Vatican II challenged the faithful too contemplate the WHY of our traditions as much as they practice the WHAT of those same traditions. From what I've heard of the "pre-conciliar" Church, too many were far too entrenched in the legalisms of practice and not concerned enough with the underlying spiritual realities.<br /><br />Vatican II then, sought to make the Church "more real" to people, rather than a mundane practice.<br /><br />Certainly I appreciate Msgr's angst with the risk that the Council fathers took, but I would remind everyone that true, long-term growth cannot happen without some degree of risk, sometimes pretty stiff risk.<br /><br />I certainly wish to see a greater understanding and practice of the Church's traditions, so I thank Msgr for that point. I think it foolish to throw the teaching of the Council under the bus from being mandatory though.<br /><br />If it isn't binding on every person, why bother with it at all?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13693728555801144332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-1788785826247817512010-07-06T14:51:34.034-07:002010-07-06T14:51:34.034-07:00Dear Mar,
I do not know if it has been translate...Dear Mar, <br /><br />I do not know if it has been translated into other languages, but I would assume it has been in French at least.Knight of Maltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01722860565200350792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-25279682108694480722010-07-03T08:06:33.024-07:002010-07-03T08:06:33.024-07:00Great post. nd previous ones excellent as well.
Ke...Great post. nd previous ones excellent as well.<br />Keep posting.thomas tuckernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-65915272195579994762010-07-01T11:46:23.791-07:002010-07-01T11:46:23.791-07:00This book can also be ordered through the Academy ...This book can also be ordered through the Academy of the Immaculate, a traditional Catholic apostolate in the USA.<br /><br />Copies of Msgr. Gherardini's book are $25 each plus shipping. Mike Coffey, FTI can be contacted for orders directly at mimike@pipeline.com or 1-888-906-2742.<br /><br />I spoke with Mr Coffey this morning, which was a pleasure, and he has stock on hand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-67064079529436675212010-06-30T21:55:07.484-07:002010-06-30T21:55:07.484-07:00This book is dynamite! I had know idea Mgr. Gherh...This book is dynamite! I had know idea Mgr. Gherhardini would be so forthright! Thanks so much for posting these quotes!<br /><br />--ZakhurAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-60229901108509635032010-06-28T03:58:40.358-07:002010-06-28T03:58:40.358-07:00Thank you for this review.
May God bless Msgr. Gh...Thank you for this review.<br /><br />May God bless Msgr. Gherardini for being so courageous in speaking the truth!Aduliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00534730218402742905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-58068769346597677892010-06-27T21:31:31.885-07:002010-06-27T21:31:31.885-07:00Forgot to ask this in my previous post: has this b...Forgot to ask this in my previous post: has this book been translated into any other languages besides English?Marnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5269695529139819196.post-85700965082737255722010-06-27T21:26:17.610-07:002010-06-27T21:26:17.610-07:00Thank you, thank you for posting this. What an eye...Thank you, thank you for posting this. What an eye-opener! I can already think of several catholic acquaintances with whom I have discussed Vatican II who need to see what is in that book. You have given good glimpses into it.Marnoreply@blogger.com